Cleo Top
Finished
July 25, 2024
August 5, 2024

Cleo Top

Project info
Cleo Top by Simone Ryan
Knitting
TopsSleeveless Top
Who Can Say?
Size E
Needles & yarn
US 3 - 3.25 mm
US 5 - 3.75 mm
Quince & Co. Willet
67 yards in stash
3.54 skeins = 566.4 yards (517.9 meters), 177 grams
005
Pink
The Knit Cafe Toronto in Toronto, Ontario
April 25, 2022
Notes
  • Making the V-neck version of this garment using the US5 and US3 for edging. All info below pertains to the instructions for that version of the top.

  • What I’ll say about this pattern is that it’s quite clear (if not brief). But I do appreciate the instructions for 3 separate necklines and that does take up space.

  • I do think that it would be useful, for newer knitters, if the pattern clarified that the knit stitch (on the first and last stitch of every row, even the purl rows) is a garter selvedge edge that, I assume, is utilized to make the pick up of edging stitches easier and cleaner to work.

  • This is an easy pattern if you follow it without making alterations. That’s not so much the case if you need to adjust the depth of the armscye AND you’re making the V neck version. :-)

  • Alas, I have a short-armscye and I don’t like shallow Vs. So I have to make what I’m going to call a “compound V neck” :-). Effectively this means I’ll make the armholes at a different length (in my case shorter) than the V neck. And this is truly a pain in the ass to refine.

  • In this pattern, the armscye is the same depth as the V neck. So if you want those to be at different lengths, you’re in for some math. If you’re a newbie and/or you don’t like garment math, perhaps make the scoop neck (aka U neck). It’ll be deeper than the crew neck (aka O neck) but I can’t imagine that it will interfere alterations that you might want to make on the armhole depth.

  • Modifying the Back Body:If you want to make vertical alterations, specifically, in the upper bodice/armscye area, there are a few factors to consider: gauge (you need to know if yours is the same as the pattern’s or it adds a layer of complexity), the back body short row section depth - which is factored into the back armscye depth), and the depth of the underarm shaping section. You also need to consider the depth removed from the armscye when the edging is added on.

  • At my gauge: 5.5st and 7.75R in 4”, the underarm shaping section is 2.58” (incs segment). My upper short row section, at my gauge, is 1.25” deep. Note that this measurement is already factored into the upper back body instructions prior to the armscye increases.

  • I want a finished garment armscye depth that is shorter than the 9” (instructed for size E). I prefer 7.25”, so I have to a) consider the depth of the armscye edging (see more below) and b) subtract short row segment and the underarm segment lengths from the desired final length to determine the upper back “interior” depth (that minus short row depth, armscye depth and width of edging). For me that “in between” depth is 3.9”. Depth is 5.2” from CO to start of armscye incs. If you add to these the 2.58” of armscye depth, the pre-edged armscye depth is 7.75”. The edging will likely decrease the armhole depth by an additional 0.5”. And that gets me to 7.25”…

  • More about Armscye Edging: The edging is 0.5” wide, which decreases the armscye depth further by that amount, at a min, when knitted on. The pick up ratio will dictate if there’s any addtional pull-up than that at the underarm. I’m estimating, with my yarn and pick up ratio, it will be 0.5” because I’m also reusing cotton that was once another garment and it got totally baggy in the armhole and stretched with every wear (I had to dryer it to tighten it between washings). This means I’m aiming for an armscye that’s 7.75” before the edging is knitted on, to provide a final depth of ~7.25”.

  • Modifying the Front Body: The shoulder seam sits diagonally on the back body. It sits about 0.75” back of the shoulder top at the interior (neckline) edge and 1.5” back of the shoulder top on the armscye edge given the shaping provided by the short row segment on the upper back. That eats into the strap length on the front body because straps attach to the back body at the back shoulder, not the shoulder top.** Update:** After blocking the interior shoulder sits at the shoulder top and the exterior shoulder sits about 0.75” towards the back of the shoulder.

  • I removed 1.5” from the depth of the back body. Now to modify the front…

  • I’m only going to remove 1” (8R) from the front body for a few reasons: a) to whatever extent I remove depth from the armscye, I remove depth from the Vneck and I don’t want the v to get too shallow, b) I cut more rows from the back than I will on the front, given that the back armscye is shorter c) given the back neck short row shaping and how it positions the depth of the front neck, in practice, the total circumference of the armscye will be redistributed between the front and the back halves. If I am too “extreme” in terms of removing back body depth, this is how I can mitigate any potential over-shortness or at least that’s what I’m telling myself.

  • I’ve opted to remove the depth from the “front sides” section (the first section of the front where you construct the strap, just after casting on for the fronts. That means I’ll knit 29 instead of 37 rows before I begin the “Increases V-neck” section. This will reduce the depth of the v by an inch that I likely do not want to lose.

  • How I’ll modify things to lengthen the V neck: I’ll join at the underarms, at the desired length, and knit 8 more rows flat (though joined at underarm) while continuing the v-neck increases in pattern. That’ll get me to the original 9” V depth. But I have to figure out how not to increase additional stitches in circumference because this yarn grows and I want at least 6” of negative ease for 37.5” bust. I have to do a bit of thinking on this.**

  • OK, I’ve sorted it out this way: Effectively, to maintain the instructed stitch count, I have to decrease at the side front body for every instance that I increase at the front neckline until I join at the front body and start knitting in the round.

  • In the post-underarm join / pre-join at front neck, I’ll continue to knit the front neck incs while also decreasing at each side front body as follows:

RS: K3, M1L, k to 3 st before side marker, ssk, k1, sl m, k to next side marker, sl m, k1, k2tog, k to 3 st before end of row, M1R, K3

WS: K1, Purl to 1st before end of R, K1

  • I’ll work the 2-row repeat, above, 4 times (8R / 1”)

  • After joining at underarms (even while continuing to increase at the front neckline) the stitch count will remain what the pattern stipulates for Size E.

  • At the instructed 9” V neck depth (considering that the edging will be added on thereafter), I can fully join in the round. But my armscyes will be the desired 7.25” once the edging is added to them.

  • Tried on at 3” below underarm join. It’s approx 1” above my nipple height. As of 5.5” below join (not including the depth of the edging), the fabric hits at my underbust.

  • 7g = 10R so each R is 0.7g

  • Hilariously I had all but a yard or 2 of yarn that I needed when knitting down/binding off the hem of the body. I had another ball remnant, which I had to use for the last 20 stitches though it’s not optimal to introduce a new ball during a bind off. It actually worked pretty smoothly given how this knit/down bind off works. This used the exact amount of yarn that I used for the previous project (Slanting Slip Over), that I reclaimed this yarn from. But this garment fits a lot better.

  • The hem bind off may flip up (I knew this was a risk). If it doesn’t settle after blocking, I will have to take it out, bind off knit wise and then sew down the hem.

  • Knitting down the hem took a while - prob about 90 min. Truly, all of the effort in this knit is in the edge finishing.

  • I made this garment ~2” longer than instructed because it’s got quite a bit of negative ease and my stomach and breasts take up circumference, which shortens the garment while being worn.

  • Armscye Edging: Because I made my armscye shorter than the shortest size, I picked up the number of stitches that seemed warranted (based on the instructions) and that was 82.

  • The instructions to create the edging are clear but there are no instructions advising how to sew down or knit down the edging, as with the body. I think that instructions would be helpful because that’s probably the finickiest element of this minimalist garment.

  • I’ve opted to knit down the edging. Sewing it down is easier / less fiddly but the knitted down version does create a very neat finish without any hand sewing. It’s just slightly bulkier. Regardless of whether you sew down or knit down, use markers to denote, every 12 stitches or so, where that segment should start and stop, ensuring that the ribbing remains perpendicular to the bodice / not pulling up or down.

  • Finishing this sort of edging can be time -consuming particularly if you want to do it well. The only thing that people will notice in the end are fit and well-executed beautiful design details like this knitted or sewn down, folded edging. I probably spent 4 hours doing, undoing and redoing the armscyes to ensure they were very even.

  • Can’t say I’m loving this knitting experience - and it’s not the fault of the pattern. It’s just taking a lot of effort for something that is so simple. And the yarn, which was never a fave / I don’t much like cotton, esp 100%, is that much less pleasant to knit for having been unknitted from another, worn garment that went in the washer and dryer on a number of occasions. Cotton can so easily look ratty or uneven or loose if one doesn’t focus when knitting…

  • V Neck Edging: Using the instructed rate, I casted on 124st at neckline (Size E). Because I modified the front bodice to deepen the v, it’s the same depth as it would have been if I’ve made this size without altering the armscyes.

  • Happily, I only needed to cast on for the neckline once, but it still took a good 2 hours to complete the edging process.

  • How I Worked the V Neck Edge: Followed the pattern instructions till the finishing. Then, as with the armscyes, I knitted the V down. It’s easier to finish the neck because it’s worked flat. Note: When picking up the stitches for the V neck, I picked up the two full, v-down stitches on either side of the centre neck but didn’t go into the tail between them.

  • To have more maneuverablility, I casted off the final 4 stitches (without stitching them down). This enabled me to overlap the 2 edges that meet at the v. Update: Were I to make this again, I’d overlap the right-hand side of the V on the wearer, over the left-hand side. This means I’d cast off the first 4 st without stitching down, and then stitch them over the left-hand side at the end.

  • It is quite finicky to sew down the final overlapped part. And I feel I might have had a better result if I weren’t using cotton. Wool would prob work much more seamlessly. I can live with the result though. I don’t think anyone other than me would even notice what makes me a smidge dissatisfied and I’m pretty sure that, as soon as I wear it, I will never think about it again. If I do, I can always re-open the final portion of the edging to re-do.

Final Thoughts:

  • The finishing on this pattern, plus the selvedge stitches (which make picking up the edges easier) and the way that the increases and decreases are worked, create a very polished and lovely, simple tank. It’s a refined design that’s well-explained for the most part.

  • I wouldn’t make this in 100% cotton again, but I think it will wear fine and I can throw it in the washer and dryer to cinch it up, as necessary. Likely won’t use this yarn again but that’s cuz of its fibre content, not because it’s bad yarn. The colour is actually very beautiful and the hand is quite soft. I’d have thought it would be more ropey given that it was a garment previously.

  • This pattern is clear and easily modifiable though some mods are less effortful than others.

  • The lack of instructions on finishing the edges, specifically as it pertains to seaming - sewing or knitting down, is perhaps suboptimal (though experienced knitters may not be fussed by this). I don’t need the instructions but, if I did, I’d prefer a bit more info. And when I buy a pattern, I prefer it to contain reference to all techniques utilized therein. As a new knitter, edging would likely have taken me much longer than it did this time (not that I am anything but slow even after many years :-)).

  • I have minor concern (pre-blocking) that the knitted down edges are too bulky. I will def consider weighting them after wet-blocking (to keep them from fipping), while they dry. I may also use my wooden (sewing) clapper to flatten them. That’s the challenge of working with thicker yarn and knitted seams in a fibre without much natural recovery… Worst case scenario, I rip the hem out (I feel the other edgings will behave after blocking), do a standard knit bind off / sew down the bound off edge.

  • I would potentially make this again in wool, esp now that I’ve refined the pattern. Here’s the thing though: I will never work with 100% DK cotton again. Hell, I barely work with DK wool because I find it too bulky. I hate cotton’s hand and it has no drape but it stretches cuz it’s too heavy, even on a sleeveless stockinette garment. As a result, I may never wear this top. It’s going into the closet till I’m motivated to wear it. And if that doesn’t happen by next summer, I will give this away as I will def not knit with this yarn again. I will say that the cotton looks more matte, having been a worn garment previously.

  • I’m happy with my armscye shortening outcome and with the depth of the neckline, even though it happens to be 8” after seaming (update - 8.5” after bocking) - the edging brought the v up more than I anticipated. It’s not high and it’s not low. I’d likely aim for the instructed 9” if I were to make this again but it looks great as is.

  • It was tough to trust my numerous tweaks given that the bodice doesn’t really sit or look as it will (in the finished garment), until the edging is added and the weight of the bodice pulls it down. My math appears to have worked though, which is gratifying cuz I had to think more than I wanted to. The hazards of being picky.

Pre-blocked Gauge:

  • Length from underarm to hem: 14”
  • Length of hem: 0.5”
  • Bust circ: 32”
  • Hip circ: 34”
  • Armscye depth: 7.25”
  • V neck depth: 8”
  • Back neckline (edging to edging): 5.75”
  • Armscye and V Neck edging depth: 0.5”

Post-blocked Gauge:

  • Length from underarm to hem: 13.25”
  • Length of hem: 0.4”
  • Bust circ: 32”
  • Hip circ: 35”
  • Armscye depth: 7.5”
  • V neck depth: 8.5”
  • Back neckline (edging to edging): 5.75”
  • Armscye and V Neck edging depth: 0.4 and 0.5”

Pre-blocked Gauge (US 6): 22st and 30R in 4”
Post blocked Gauge (US6): 20st and 33.3R in 4”

This gauge is too open for any top I’d want to make given that this is 100 per cent cotton and it has poor recovery.

Pre-blocked Gauge (US5): 22.5st and 31.3R in 4”

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Finished
July 25, 2024
August 5, 2024
About this pattern
54 projects, in 100 queues
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About this yarn
by Quince & Co.
Sport
100% Cotton
160 yards / 50 grams

1874 projects

stashed 1692 times

KristinM100's star rating
KristinM100's adjectives for this yarn
  1. Very drapey - no recovery (cuz cotton is effectively spun rope) but not as hard on the hands as linen.
  2. The hand is very "lotion"-y.
  3. Quite soft.
  • Originally queued: May 25, 2024
  • Project created: July 26, 2024
  • Updated: August 6, 2024
  • Progress updates: 4 updates